Welcome to everybody.

As I’m calling you from Melbourne in Australia, I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land I’m calling in from, which is the Bunurong people of the Kulin Nation in Australia, and I’m sure there are many custodians of the land and all over the world. I’d like to acknowledge them also and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging.

So welcome to this idyllic conversation about the quietly powerful leadership and the changing face of leadership that we need now more so than ever in this world. I suppose the story of this concept comes from the idea that, at the moment, I still see most of the time – and it’s not always – but in most organisations where you see the not so quiet people, the people who are quite vocal, comfortable in front of groups and things like that, they tend to be very visible and they often get noticed and promoted and they do a good job, they bring energy and everything else.

And those of you who are familiar with Facet5, you know, the High Energy people, they bring in great energy. And it’s fantastic. But on the other hand, you have this group of people who are a little bit quieter, perhaps aren’t as visible.

They’re the quiet achievers. They get a lot done and often show great leadership, but in a different way. And they get overlooked. And so, for organisations, I do think that we’re missing a huge opportunity to bring both of them together and have the best of both worlds, because there are some incredible leadership strengths that come with being a little quieter. And that’s what I wanted to share with you today, so that you, if you are a quieter person, you can see your own leadership potential. But also, organisations can actually harness both rather than seeing more the visible side, but actually some of the invisible leadership strengths that come with being a bit quieter.

And in fact, I believe that both not so quiet people and quieter people can do with a little more of that quieter leadership qualities that can be very beneficial to teams and organisations. So, let me ask you a question – and I’m going to make it interactive in this session. So, if you can be ready to type things in the chat, I’m going to ask you very simple questions that you can type straight into the chat. So, the first question I’m going to ask you to pick Left or Right, so just typing L or R in the chat box.

So, the question I have is: Which behaviours do you see, more often, in leadership positions? So, people who are in leadership positions that you know of and you can go left or right. So first up, obviously the outspoken versus quiet, which one do you see more often? Left or right.

So those of you who are familiar with Facet5, the outspoken ones, will typically be the High Will, High Energy. The quieter ones will typically be the Low Will, Low Energy.

Lots of L’s.

So that says a lot about what I said right at the beginning, that often we see the high energy or outspoken people versus not so much of the quieter leaders.

What about high-paced versus lower and thoughtful leaders?

So again, if you are familiar with Facet5, you will see the High Energy people being quite fast paced. And can be a little impatient sometimes. Those people with slower, thoughtful, typically Lower Energy.

OK, so we’re continuing with the L’s there. That’s really interesting.

So that’s quite consistent with what I found this morning also. What about directive versus consultative? So, directive, in the context of Facet5 will be High Will, Energy and Low Affection, potentially. Consultative? Low Will, Low Energy and High Affection, potentially.

OK, so we’ve got some right-hand side, which is good to see. So, a little bit more of a mix, Left and Right. So, some of you think both. So, Yes. So that might be a bit of a mix on this one, which I hope is the case. Because I don’t think being directive all the time is going to be so helpful, particularly as I explain to you what’s going on in the world now.

OK, what about the last one, rational versus emotional? Now I’m not going to be able to tell which one you’re answering, but I’ll just get a gist of it. So rational would be Low Emotionality Low affection… typically.

The more emotional leaders maybe more of a High Emotionality and High Energy, potentially, and High Affection. So, I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Facet5, but I use Facet5 all the time, so I thought that might just make that connection. So interesting. You’re seeing a bit of both. I’m not quite sure what you mean by R/E, ah maybe Rational and Emotional. OK, so it’s a bit of both. So, R and L there’s a mix of R and L. So I think when you think about the prevalence of the idea of emotional intelligence, for example, might have helped to shift some thinking about what we mean by being emotional or using emotion as well in leadership as well. So I think there’s some shift. But what’s interesting though, so far is the top two lines, outspoken and fast-paced, are definitely Left according to you. So that’s really interesting.

So, thank you for sharing with me.

So, if we look at all of those, particularly the first two lines that we talked about, I guess my take on it is that we still have quite a skewed view of what we believe to be strong, powerful leadership. And they do tend to be the ones that are High Energy and High Will in Facet5 terms. And it’s interesting, when I looked up a photo for this idea of powerful leadership or strong leadership, and this is the image I get. Now it’s the military leader. And so we still have a mental image of strong leadership as the military leader who leads from the front. And, you know, you can imagine them shouting and being quite outspoken and so on.

But what we believe to be strong leadership in the military is actually also outdated, which I found out through my interviews of of quietly powerful leaders, one of whom was a military leader. In Australia Navy. So I’ll share with you a bit about that later on.

But the idea here is that we have a biased view of leadership, and that’s my point here. And our choices of leaders are biased as a result, because we have this mental picture of what a strong or good leader looks like. And one of the reasons, according to Brian Klaas who recently wrote a book called ‘Corruptible’… And I know that the title of the book sounds pretty awful, but it is that there’s some bits of research in there that I think are really relevant and useful here. So, this quote, I take, I’ve taken out a bit of the book where it says, ‘Our brains are adapted to pick leaders based on characteristics that are no longer adaptive or necessary today. We’re wired to gravitate towards strong men (in quotation marks, and I refer to it as a style The High Will / High Energy,) strong men who are overconfident and speak of solutions in simplistic terms. That’s what historically it took to survive.” So that this is the research from Brian Klaas saying, yes, we are a little biased in how who we think our leaders look like and as indicated by what you have experienced as well as those people who are outspoken and quite fast-paced in particular.

Now here’s another interesting book, which I think the title is quite controversial in some ways, but I think that content is fantastic by Dr. Thomas Timmer. Optimistic why do so many incompetent men become leaders and how to fix it? And I suppose if I referred to this idea of strongmen in a style, it’s not about men or women, because I’m sure you can think of women who have a strongman style of leadership. So, if you think about that and put gender aside for now, what he says is that traits like overconfidence and self-absorption should be seen as red flags. But instead, they prompt us to say, this charismatic fellow probably should be in leadership, or he probably is leadership material.

And so that’s what can happen. And so, we are blinded by the charisma or the way that they speak or the confidence that they might show on the outside doesn’t necessarily mean they’re confident on the inside. And we get drawn to that as people being leader-like. But what he says is and he makes this case throughout his book, the result in both business and politics is a surplus of incompetent men in charge. And this surplus reduces opportunities for competent people who are less of that style, both women and men, while keeping the standards of leadership depressingly low. So, he actually talks about beware of being fooled by, if you like, or even become drawn to this overconfident or confident approach or style because confidence doesn’t equal competence. And he even has said not so much in the book, but as I’ve heard him speak, where he says that the overlap between competence and competence is actually only about 9% So that’s really dangerous, isn’t it, where if we’re choosing leaders based on confidence, then there can be some serious issues. Of course, there are competent leaders who are competent also. But, you know, there may be a chance or quite a big chance that might not be the case. So, my take on that, too, is it’s the appearance of confidence as opposed to an internal sense of confidence, where some quieter leaders I’ve interviewed have real confidence on the inside, but it doesn’t show up necessarily on the outside. So, the idea here is then our beliefs around leadership does need an update and that it is actually changing. And particularly through the pandemic, we have noticed that people are noticing different styles of leadership, whether it’s in organisations or world leaders. And so there have been articles that refer to this. For example, this idea of tough, macho leadership is over and here’s what’s taking place. And again, I take this as not necessarily about a man or a woman or male or female. It’s more about the style of leadership. That one who knows everything directs everything from the front. As if people should just follow. That doesn’t seem to be working anymore. And we’re also seeing the opposite and how people are being drawn to that, as some famous examples of that would be Jacinda Ardern, who shows a lot of compassion and empathy, which perhaps has been seen in the past and soft. But now people are appreciating that. And I know Jacinda has many, many quotes around that, but this quote is particularly around the style of not being so outspoken that leadership is not necessarily about being the loudest in the room, but instead being the bridge or the thing that is missing in the discussion and trying to build a consensus from there. So that’s a different way of relating to telling people what to do or to take over the whole conversation. So that would be a world leader example.

Another great world leader example of a quietly powerful leader is Angela Merkel, the former German Chancellor. And this documentary. It’s an Australian documentary called Four Corners. And they did a piece on Angela Merkel, and it really highlighted how she led was very or being an ordinary person and in a very quiet way, in a way that wasn’t about her. And so Tony Blair actually talked about her in this documentary and the quote went something like this in the course of the slide. So, he said she was very different and that she was very calm, much less assertive, much less aggressive, but with a quiet authority.

So Yes, or No? So, if you can type in the chat, who has seen leaders like this? Have you seen a leader like these who have a quiet authority? They don’t. They’re not showy. They they’re not necessarily that vocal that I say a lot, perhaps even in meetings. But when they do, they have such an authority or people listen to them or that they make a great deal of insight.

OK lots of yes’s there. Thank you.

So, they do exist and they are very effective. We just don’t have enough of them. And I do believe that these days in the world that we live in, we need more and more of these leaders. And let me share with you some highlights of the reasons why I think we need more of these leaders. So I’m sure you would agree that we have more complexity and uncertainty in the world. I mean, the pandemic was a classic case of uncertainty. No one knew what was going to happen. I still remember March 2020. Everybody’s going into lockdowns and all sorts of things that we had no idea. So and the complexity, maybe after the crisis of once we gone through the lockdowns, when do we come out of lockdown? How do we deal with vaccines and people who dealt with vaccines, etc., etc.? There’s a lot of complexity. So, in that kind of world, you cannot have a leader who thinks they know everything and tells everybody what to do. It just doesn’t work. Or leaders who don’t listen to multiple perspectives. So we really need that kind of leader that can incorporate a number of different perspectives and make thoughtful, informed decisions. Second reason. We’re so interconnected. And I guess the pandemic would show that. But the world wars. The war in Europe, certainly shows that the economies are connected, that everybody’s impacted by that, too. Climate change is a global condition that we have to deal with. We are so connected that we cannot have leaders only thinking about their patch. We need leaders that can work across and multicultural groups of people, whether it’s within a team, within an organisation, within country, across countries. And so, again, if you don’t have leaders who can empathize and listen to people who are different to them. And work with them, work through differences constructively, then we’re in big trouble.

So, again, quietly, powerful leaders that I interviewed, they are bringing this quiet approach, which is about listening. Working with multiple perspectives. And so to me, that’s another reason for needing this kind of leadership. And finally, what I’ve seen a lot more of people who are just tired of not being listened to. So that could be within an organisation and that could be within society where there’s a lot of protests, whether it’s, you know, the Me Too or the Black Lives Matter movement or all the different movements that are going on.

We often hear people speaking out about not being listened to. So I get frustrated with organisations who try and build up a speak-up culture. I’ve heard of a number of organisations trying to do that. My question to them is, are you building a listen-up culture?

So, you know, you think, well, Where’s the listening? It takes two sides to work for that to work. So more and more, we need leaders who have the capacity put aside their desire to speak and things, to really listen and incorporate what they heard. So let me introduce you to the quietly powerful leaders that I interviewed in order to write the book. So I’ll mention the book to you later on. But I did write a book called Quietly Powerful how your quiet leadership is your hidden leadership strength. And to write the book, I interviewed a whole bunch of leaders, mainly in Australia, but I think is still very relevant across the world. And as you can see, quite a diverse range of people, both gender wise, culturally and also industry and sector. So there are c-suite executives. They are partners in professional services firms. There’s a doctor, who was heading up a hospital. There was a military leader, as I mentioned, a senior leader in a police force, and also entrepreneurs, Olympians and Paralympian and thought leaders and speakers and authors and so on.

So there’s quite a range of people. And what I found from them, some real quiet superpowers that I wish more leaders had. And these leaders spoke about it. And also their team members spoke about their quiet superpowers. And we really do, as I mentioned, because of the reasons I stated, we really need these leaders now more than ever. So let me share with you some of the quiet superpowers, and I’ll ask you after I share them to think about the leaders that you work with, whether it’s, you know, if you’re in an organisation, the leaders in your organisation, or if you’re a consultant, the leaders that you work with in your client organisations and see if they use some of these superpowers or not. So let me start with the first one. There’re quite a lot of quiet superpowers, but I’ll just mention 4 of them. So I think I listed something like 17 in the book. Just talk about four. So first, what I want to share with you is calm. So some leaders that I interviewed said that they’re not necessarily calm on the inside, but because of their quiet demeanour, they can come across as being quite deliberate, thoughtful and calm. Other leaders said they do have a skill which is about finding calm within the storm. So there are different types. But I remember Paula Giles, who was heading up a division in a company that was closing down. Now that’s pretty stressful in itself, but what she had to do was to work through with the team how to close it down and also look after them for the next job and things like that. And what I said to her was that because she was calm and she did say that she was paddling really hard underneath and she just had a calm demeanour. But because of her calm, the team was able to just get through the things they needed to get through, work on the things they had control over, not worry so much about the things I can’t control. So that was a really great example of calm as a superpower. Another, which I’ve already mentioned a number of times, is this – listening. And listening from the perspective of being quieter, allows other people to have the space to speak, but also the quiet superpower of being present when listening. So it’s not listening to respond like many people do in organisations. It’s listening to understand. And that’s a very different quality. And alongside that, there’s deep thinking going on. And an example of that is Steve Hodgkinson, who was the Chief Information Officer at the Department of Health in Victoria during the pandemic. And I interviewed him actually before the pandemic and also after the pandemic. I mean, we’re still in pandemic, but during the lockdowns in Melbourne, in Victoria, if any of you know, we had the longest lockdown in the world, apparently. Anyway, so he was involved as the Chief Information Officer, having to create all these systems from scratch, from taking tracking the vaccine, take UPS to the case numbers to etc. There was a lot of things to get done. And speaking to him before and after, I do think that his ability to be humble and listen to his team and experts around him and stakeholders and really think about what’s being said and integrate what he’s learned and integrate his own thinking in it. That is what got him through. And to the extent that some of his team members actually said to me, it was the best executive team that they’ve ever worked in. Because Steve was the type that would say, I’ve got this idea. What about this? I want you to challenge it and let’s dig through it together. And he would listen to that and actually work through with them. And so they felt they mattered.

Their voice mattered that their ideas were taken seriously. And so, they felt very empowered and really committed to making things happen with him. So seriously important superpower that Steve Hodgkinson demonstrated there. And then it’s very much related, but another is being inclusive. So, because people are quietly powerful leaders, listen, it helps people to feel like they matter, that their views are important. And that is a sense of inclusion just as much as, you know, inviting people into meetings or whatever, different ways of ensuring people feel included. But listening and really thinking about what you’ve heard is such a powerful way to make sure people feel included.

So that will be another. But of course, another aspect of inclusion is allowing space for people to shine, and quietly powerful leaders do that so well because they don’t necessarily feel they need to be the centre of attention. So, they allow everybody to shine. They create the space and that can be very powerful also.

So, can you please grab a device of some sort? And I’d like to do a Mentimeter exercise where if you grab the phone, scan the code, you should be asked a question about how well the leaders, you know, use some of these quiet superpowers. So, if you wouldn’t mind grabbing this code and answer the question and I had some answers come through this morning, so we’ll add to that and see where we get to.

Please grab the code.

I’ll just leave it up for a little bit. And I’ll change the screen over in a minute. So, it is moving.

So, it’s working.

All right.

So, I’m going to shift over. Here we go. Thank you. And I’m seeing that there’s a few comments there, too. Thank you for the comments. You know, I agree, leaders who struggle

with the more aggressive, assertive lab partners. Yes, there’re some challenges working with the opposite types. And yeah, I do run some coaching and some programs, and I know that some leaders really struggle with that also. And so there’s, you know, different ways that they have to learn to adapt as well.

OK Thank you. So interesting that they’re quite low. So does that mean that the leaders, you know, are not really using those quiet superpowers? I think that’s what it’s saying. Interestingly, it’s kind of evened up in the morning. The deep thinking and reflection was the lowest by far, as opposed to being quite similar.

So, in the chat box, if you would like to just make a comment about what you think is going on here is that, you know, we don’t have enough of those leaders. Are we not teaching these leaders enough? Is it too busy? That’s why people don’t listen and think about things.

What do you think is going on? So, I’ll leave you to ponder on that and put it in the chat.

So, continuing from here. What I’d like to share with you is the fact that some of your best leadership talent is hiding in plain sight. It’s just that we don’t spot them enough.

Because of these reasons, we have assumptions about quiet people. When I asked this question, what do you think of a quiet person, particularly if they said something like,

oh, you know, let’s say people talking about Megumi? They gave me, you know, really good with her work, but she’s a bit quiet, you know? Then what do you think of Megumi?

And these are the words that come up. And so often you get the shy, timid, lacks confidence and so on, and they get labelled as definitely not leader-like. So, as you say, so much bias towards High Will, High Energy leaders for sure.

And the other thing that’s, really, interesting is being quieter. We often stereotype or assume that they’re introverted or low energy, and it’s not necessarily the case. And I’d like to share with you, my story.

This is me. When I was five, I was pretty cute. My mum often says, what happened to you? Anyway, so I was always a quiet child and my mum used to speak on my behalf quite often.

But I grew up and I went to eight different schools in three different countries.

It was my survival mechanism. It wasn’t just about my personality. So, there were many other factors. And in the Japanese schools, there was very much a conformist type of approach. So, you were very much not allowed to stand out. So, if you think about that, you know, very short story of mine. But the reason why I can be quiet is not just about me being an introvert. Yes, I am slightly more introverted than extroverted, but there’s definitely other factors. Personality wise within that. So those of you familiar with Facet5 it’s not just about energy, it’s also about emotionality. Those of you who are familiar with the Big Five personality traits in psychology, it’s neuroticism. So, when people get anxious more easily, that can go quiet too. Even highly sensitive people, they can also be quiet because they’re just overwhelmed. So, there’re lots of other reasons. The other is conditioning.

As I mentioned, it was my survival mechanism growing up and therefore that’s gone on into my adulthood. That’s caused me to be quiet. If I feel that I don’t feel safe about speaking up, or maybe there’s authority in the room. And I’ve been taught over many, many decades that you don’t speak up against authority. So, there might be many, many reasons.

And then finally, there’s always power dynamics in a room or in a situation. There are people with more power, whether it’s hierarchical or because they are more influential in some way, or maybe it’s because there’s an in-group and an out-group. So, if you’re in the

outgroup, it’s very difficult to speak up, even as simple as if you’re in a group and you have the majority of people thinking one way. And you think another way, then that can be really difficult for that one person to speak up. So, there’re lots of different reasons why it could be quite so. Quietness is misunderstood, in other words. And on top of that, on top of that, the people who are quieter or people who are seen to be quiet, get this feedback. And again, in the chat box, I’d love for you to say Yes if you do have if you haven’t had it, if you have had an experience of being given this feedback. You need to be more confident. You need to believe in yourself. You need to speak up more. You’re too quiet. If you’ve had any of these back in the past, please put a Yes in the chat box.

So, I feel better because I’ve had plenty of those lots of yeses. Thank you. I feel much better now. So, the thing about the feedback, you need to be more confident. Is that it’s very unhelpful. So, all of this is very well-meaning but unhelpful feedback, because when I get told to be more confident, I start to go, oh, I’m not coming across very well. Then I wonder what I’m doing wrong, and I start to go into a spiral of doubt. So, it actually makes me even less confident. So, it’s very unhelpful. So, if you ever coach people or if you’re a leader working with your people, please stop telling them to be more confident. There are many other ways to help them to be more confident. And it’s not telling them to be more confident or act so that would be another reason why we have people hidden rather than people shining. Because simply being quiet doesn’t mean necessarily that they’re quietly powerful. There is a developmental process that goes with that. And people can be quietly disempowered. And so, it does require you to actually spot and develop quietly powerful leaders. And I wonder how many organisations do that to make the most of the amazing superpowers that some of these leaders, potential leaders have. And so, the idea about looking for and developing quietly leaders is what I’ve been helping organisations do and also helping individuals to find it within themselves. And there are three attributes that are found in quietly powerful leaders that I really encourage people to develop, to become quietly powerful. And the three attributes very quickly are and there’s much more in the book and there’s much more in my website, too, if you want to find out more. But the three attributes are firstly about being comfortable in yourself. I deliberately chose comfortable, not confident. It’s actually about just being OK with who you are by strengths, weaknesses and everything. You’ve got to be much more comfortable because that allows you to be more authentic, humble, be OK with telling people that you don’t know something or you’re not good at something. So that’s the first attribute. Part of that is that being comfortable also allows you to do the second attribute, which is being present. Now, I mentioned earlier about listening. Listening is not just about, you know, just hearing the words. It’s actually about being present. And it’s not just about the content. It’s the relationship that gets built through the energy of being present. So that is a huge part of being quietly powerful. And the third part of it is being purposeful, which is actually about the fact that the quietly powerful leaders often didn’t see themselves as a leader or didn’t say that they wanted the power or control or the being the center of attention or anything like that, that wasn’t the reason they had some purpose that was beyond themselves, that pulled them forward into leadership, or they got tapped on the shoulder and said, you can make a difference in this area. And they felt that sense of purpose. So there’s much more in the book, as I said. But these are the three attributes that I work with people to develop and help organisations to start to recognise as well. And in doing so, I do think there’s an opportunity to impact in multiple ways in the field of people and culture in organisations. When you spot and develop quietly powerful leaders. Firstly, you’re tackling diversity and inclusion. One, because you start to get the diversity of leadership styles. Two, because quietly powerful leaders tend to be more inclusive. So you get more inclusive leaders. And three, the quieter people can be of a diverse background because often being in the minority, you may end up being a little quieter anyway. As I mentioned about the power dynamics earlier. Secondly, engagement. When people feel listened to, they are much more engaged, much more willing to give all of those things. So when people when we have more quietly powerful leaders, if they are more listened to or we develop leaders to be better at listening and acquire superpowers, then you get engagement. And of course, on top of that, you get better talent and leadership. Because you’re making, by developing and spotting, quietly powerful leaders, you’re making the most of both the High Energy, High Will leaders who also have some great qualities. And you also bring in the quiet superpowers, of the quieter leaders, and you get the best of both worlds. So, you’re enhancing the quality of leadership overall. And of course, that leads to a better culture and so tackles a whole bunch of different areas in my mind about people and culture and organisations. So, I’m interested in your take on what’s happening in your organization or in your client organisations. How are they harnessing superpowers? So, these are the questions I have in the same mentee. So, I will switch over with the question so you can talk to that. If you have that page open still, you can go to that question. But the three questions I have is for you to think with the organisation you’re thinking about your organisation, the acquired organisation. How well do you think the leaders know their quiet achievers and ensure they feel valued? How well did they develop their quiet talent to become quietly powerful? How well did they use the quiet superpowers in leading others, which is somewhat related to the previous question that I had. But I’ll be interested in that also. Alright. So. It’s the same main page and I’ve shifted the question, so hopefully, you can access that. Let’s see. Oh, negative crossing. Share – there you go. So, again, I’m building on some of the morning people’s answers but, let’s see. It’s quite low though, isn’t it? Wow so those of you who have already voted, maybe you can have a think about why that might be as well. Some of you did comment on the whys before too. So, I look forward to reading it, but I’ll just have a quick squizz. But you know, if any of you want to comment on why this is the case. Yeah so, I’m just reading some of the comments earlier. It really is about the bias that already exists. More assertive people being promoted or falsely trusted to lead. Organisational systems do tend to reinforce old stereotypes. They’re not sure that these skills will be seen as a positive. Yeah, interesting. I’ve certainly heard people say they’re not seen as strong, which is the definition of ‘strong’ that I think might be going on there. So, yeah, I look forward to seeing any of the comments. Ah, here you go, lack of awareness and knowledge about quietly powerful leadership. Absolutely. Absolutely the case. That’s why I’m doing all these talks. I’m quietly trying to tell people quietly, quietly yelling that they need to recognise this. OK Thank you. So let me come back to the slides, there we go. I think that’s the side. So, what I have been working on, in order for people to recognise these qualities and the Superpowers that quietly powerful leaders can bring these things. I’ve written a book, as I mentioned, and in Australia, it won a couple of awards which really gave me heart, that people are starting to realize that we’re missing out on something. So, I’m really pleased that it was noticed in that way and I continued to these keynote talks and I also have an organisational program which is fantastic because I work with the participants as well as their people, leaders or their managers and that works really well because it educates the managers as well. And then also around individual programs for individuals who feel that I would like to become more quietly powerful because they feel held back in some way, shape or form. I also interview quietly powerful leaders still because I continue to learn from them about what they do and how they overcome some of the challenges. Like how do you deal with people who are louder? And so on. So, if you actually know people who I should interview, then please let me know because I continue to do that. And I really enjoy doing that. But if you would like to find out more about this work, the quietly powerful website has a lot of information, so please feel free to have a look. And I am just about finished writing this paper, which is more for organisations. It’s a Warning for organisations. 7 reasons you may be losing the best leadership talent and what it’s costing your organization. So, if you’re interested, this little dinosaur, I think that is actually a QR code. It does go to a little survey asking you for your name and email, just that’s all I’m asking for so that I can send it to you when it’s completed. It’s very close. So, I’m just fixing up some minor things with the designer, so please feel free to let me know if you’d like the copy of the White Paper when it’s finished. So, I’d like to finish off. So, we have a little bit of time to have a conversation.

So, I’ll finish off with this quote.

“leaders who don’t listen will eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say.”

So having quietly powerful leaders in your organisation is almost like an antidote, because you can have leaders who do listen and create people who will have things to say. So if you’d like to keep in touch with me and my work and I’m pretty active on LinkedIn, so that’s probably the best place to find me. But if you could, I just saw that there’s an email. The best thing to do is to put your email in here, if you could. So, if you could just scan the code and then I won’t miss out because otherwise I may not have access to the chat information later. So, so please do that and please keep in touch if you’re interested in this work. Thank you so much.